Comments for The Australian Friend

Comment on Discernment and Leadings among Friends. by lyn Dundas

lyn Dundas — Wed, 12 Jun 2013 04:48:07 +0000

Thank you Sue for sharing your journey in discerning and being faithful to your call. I’ve been moved by the image you were given, and how that image has been what has guided and reminded and inspired you throughout your 15 year journey. It encourages me to pay attention to and honour what is given to me.

Comment on Book Review: Mace, Jane. God and decision-making: a Quaker approach 2012, Quaker Books, Friends House, 173 Euston Road, London NW1 2BJ. www.quaker.org.uk by John

John — Mon, 20 May 2013 10:05:42 +0000

Just like the title ‘God’ means differing things to different people, it occurs to me that ‘non-theist’ means the same. If I hold that a god is a focus of worship – then I could say that an alcoholic thinks (or doesn’t) that alcohol is of ultimate worth in his life. This is how religious language works. In days past, it might have been said that the alcoholic worships Venus, the goddess of wine. Indeed, there’s no reason necessarily why someone mightn’t have their own personal pantheon of gods. In addition, there’s the point that whatever might be mentally asserted, how one lives might point to the gods in our lives. In the Abrahamic faiths there’s an assertion that the only thing of ultimate worth is some form of ultimate principle or being which in some nature is ineffable. However, I think the language works fine (to me, maybe not to others) if one doesn’t limit gods to those which are somehow transcendent. The ancient pantheons of the Greeks and the Romans didn’t.

Today, some people assert that ‘you make your own meaning’, which isn’t uncommon. However, with religious language, it’s surely the case that however someone lives, their behaviour will give some indication to their values – and their gods.

So, to me, a ‘non-theist’ means someone who intellectually is asserting that they live their life without being in relation to anything identifiable of worth. I’ve yet to meet such a person though.

Perhaps ‘non-theist’ is being used as a counter to ‘theist’, where ‘theist’ means a relation to a god in the Christian conception. Yet, again, many people – once they talk about their perception for some sort of ultimate “spirit” – their sense is often – so it seems to me – in common with much of what many Christians would identify as their god. It’s just that they rather choose not to approach the spirit in a Christian manner.

So what is a ‘non-theist’ ? It’s a wide term, but rather than be a lack of identity with a god, it seems to me that it’s a lack of identity with a particular language system. Buddhists too have their gods – isn’t emptyness being sought (and emptyness isn’t ‘nothing’) ? However, Buddhists don’t use the Abrahamic religious language approach. Perhaps a ‘non-theist’ in a Quaker setting is someone rejecting a particular concept of what they perceive to be a god that others worship – typically a Christian conception of God that is asserted by evangelicals. Sometimes anyway. Of course, language is fluid and the real meanings are found in the difference and in the relationships between people in some sense too.

Just some food for thought.

Comment on Book Review. Erica, Sabine. The Silk Road, a Journey through Time and Place.Mountain Wildfire Press. 2012. by Sabine Erika

Sabine Erika — Sun, 07 Apr 2013 09:56:56 +0000

You can get the book from me, sabine24@bigpond.net.au and I will send it
Sabine

Comment on The Wahroonga Experiment. by Valerie Joy

Valerie Joy — Wed, 20 Mar 2013 08:23:36 +0000

Very often people in any Meeting (well my Meeting anyway) are not aware of the depth and content of work being done on Quaker, Peace or community projects. This is an excellent way forward for Meetings to “know one another in the things that are eternal”.
How many people are in each circle/group? Do the monthly meetings listen to just one Friend, or are there add-ons to ministry already given in a previous meeting by all participants?
I would like to see this in action.

Comment on Shona Wedding. by prince runyare

prince runyare — Wed, 13 Mar 2013 17:35:24 +0000

Love u guys

Comment on Providence and History. by David Swain

David Swain — Wed, 13 Mar 2013 10:40:01 +0000

Sorry Reg, but I think you have had to put so many qualifications on Providence as to make it meaningless.

There is the story of the survivor coming out of Auchwitz who said: “Because Auchwitz exists, God does not exist.” To be sure, Auchwitz demonstrated that God cannot be all-loving and all-powerful, but as Jocelyn Bell Burnell suggested in her Backhouse lecture, the answer may be an all-loving God who is not all-powerful.

If such a God is going to act in history, it must be through the actions of inspired men and women.

David.

Comment on Providence and History. by Bob Westwood

Bob Westwood — Wed, 06 Mar 2013 21:37:34 +0000

Dear Reg,

I love you mate! I like your words. Providence to me is a spiritual thing; not a practical one – not a material thing. It’s a thing that leads individuals and cultures (Religious communities) towards wholeness and opportunities of that kind – not something of practical form!

Bob.

Comment on Shona Wedding. by Kim

Kim — Thu, 31 Jan 2013 23:33:12 +0000

Hi!
Thanks for sharing your story, it’s beautiful & informative. I’m part Shona, and would like to incorporate some of Shona attire into my wedding outfit (getting married in Melbourne in two months). What is the beaded neckpiece Kate is wearing in the picture? Any info is greatly appreciated!

Many thanks
Kim

Comment on Information for Yearly Meeting 2013. by Peter Dwyer

Peter Dwyer — Sun, 30 Dec 2012 08:30:20 +0000

Dear David,
Is it possible to send me Notices in Advance’ as a pdf attached to an email,
I have the timetable just need a few details of whats on and venues,
I have times.
Regards
Peter Dwyer

Comment on 1212 December 2012 by Beth Harcourt

Beth Harcourt — Sat, 29 Dec 2012 05:18:12 +0000

Finally someone is asking this question! I think it is worth considering other ways to meet both the spiritual needs and business requirements of the Australian Quaker community. I hope this idea is able to be talked about in love. In Perth we tried out live streaming. Let’s keep the conversation going.

Comment on An Experience of Loving Connection Across the Species. by Heather Cameron

Heather Cameron — Tue, 25 Dec 2012 23:07:30 +0000

Thank you Andrew, Jill, Barbara, Paddy and the New Holland Honeyeater…it’s this deep connection with the earth and healing forces beyond words, that makes this adventure called life, so enriching!

I was interested as I too have been down the road of treatment at the Andrew Love Centre in Geelong for breast cancer, and I too had some very similar experiences that were exquisite in their connection to nature, and in their synchronicity. I have often thought of writing these but of course haven’t – really appreciate your writing of your time! May these richer moments continue to sustain you!

All the best to Jill on your recovery, and to all who love and care for you.

Comment on 1212 December 2012 by Emily Walpole

Emily Walpole — Sun, 23 Dec 2012 21:24:08 +0000

Good morning Sue. Am looking into it – I assume you mean the [...] link is not working. You can access the articles by clicking on the title link. Will see whether I can see why.

Comment on 1212 December 2012 by Sue Doessel

Sue Doessel — Sat, 22 Dec 2012 11:52:51 +0000

I was unable to read any of the articles because clicking on the brackets at the end of the short versions didn’t work, just took me back to the summary page again. Is there a problem with the website, or my clicking finger?

Thanks

Sue

Comment on Meeting for Remembrance at Yearly Meeting. by Julie Walpole

Julie Walpole — Sat, 15 Dec 2012 01:34:43 +0000

With regard to the yearly collection of testimonies that are made available at Yearly Meeting, there have been a number of attampts to make them more widely available to all Ffriends. For a few years they were included in Documents in Retrospect, another idea was to make a set for each Regional Meeting – these were labelled and left in the quiet room at the YM gathering and then taken home to each RM library. Some RM clerks decided that each worship group should have a copy and made such copies available to the LM libraries and WG correspondents.

Now that we have a well established website, perhaps the testimonies could be placed on the website for a year or two with one batch removed when a new batch from a recent YM is added. Would Friends appreciate this?
Julie Walpole

Comment on Sexism in the Senate – my Experience. by CHACE ERCEG

CHACE ERCEG — Wed, 12 Dec 2012 04:23:53 +0000

The majority of us love the dramas sexism affords and moralists get off too much on righteous indignation for us to truly put an end to sexism along with a bunch of other unworthy isms.

Comment on Desert or Wasteland: the Choice for Friends in Response to Secularisation. by CHACE ERCEG

CHACE ERCEG — Wed, 12 Dec 2012 04:07:07 +0000

I don’t actually think most western spiritual leaders have a problem with secularization. I am all for it. What is sad is that when all of the great (not so great?) traditions have crumbled there won’t be any strong spiritual traditions to for the masses of people to fall back on for their religious journey.
Us the Quakers are fast dying religion precisely in part because now we are so vague and individualistic. Except for some silence and political activist opportunity, Quakerism is nearly all but dead. I know quality is always to be preferred over quantity but isn’t it sad how little replenished in ranks The Religious Society of Friends is?

Comment on Marriage – Does it Matter? by Elizabeth Fleetwood

Elizabeth Fleetwood — Tue, 11 Dec 2012 21:37:51 +0000

It seems to me that the purpose of marriage is no longer taught anywhere, whether within a religious grouping or out there in the secular world. How many couples these days, going to the altar or just settling down together without any official ceremony, do so on the understanding that the primary purpose of a committed relationship is a) to make you a better person, and b) to serve the other selflessly? You will achieve a) by doing b) – it will knock the corners off you, teach you to be not-selfish, to be compassionate, patient, observant of others and their needs, to make good leadership decisions (the best ones are always made with the interests of the other in mind), and to be gentle, kind – in other words: loving. This can only be achieved by those who commit for the long term and who are prepared to see love as a rational decision, not a feeling, and stick with it for life. The greatest gift of love is to create for the other an environment of total acceptance (which will often require much personal overcoming of one’s feelings); to make this environment nourishing both physically and spiritually for the other; and to be consistent with it all. This is a big job and not an easy one, and if one is not prepared to spend one’s life putting oneself aside for the other (if BOTH do it, then nobody misses out, ok?), then one should not get married. In our selfish, I-must-fulfill-me society, it’s an extra big ask.
Unlike what many people today believe, the primary purpose for getting married is not the having of children. Children will automatically thrive if they are lucky enough to be born into a family where daily love is practised between the parents.
Why bother? One, you become a nice and useful person. Two, you’ve had the satisfaction of making someone else happy. Three, you’ve probably raised some fine children in the process. And fourthly – and this is the magic – you will eventually truly fall in love with this person, fiercely, wildly, and passionately, and have the kind of bond that most only dream about. This bond is earned by service, and has nothing to do with “meeting the right person who will make me happy”. (Of course, it is to be hoped that one’s original choice of partner is based on true respect for that person’s values, which these days is so often hardly a consideration – how can one expect a marriage to last when this is not the basic underlying reason for choosing a particular person?). Choose a good person, set yourself out to lay before them on a daily basis the love of God, as He commanded, and while it might take forty years or more, eventually in true romantic style “love will overcome all” and you will be rewarded. That’s when the partying should happen – not at the beginning! Saving the cost of a fancy wedding for the 40 or 50-yr anniversary makes good sense.

That these things are no longer taught is a great loss to society as a whole. We see and experience a great lack of love, we see people marrying for the wrong reasons all the time and know that they are unlikely to make it through, and – tragically – it is usually because they simply don’t know, have not been taught, what love actually is.

Comment on Shona Wedding. by Valerie Joy

Valerie Joy — Tue, 11 Dec 2012 07:32:55 +0000

My very best withes to Kate, Tich and both of their families. May they grow in love and understanding of one another. Congratulations on support for Hlekweni also.

Comment on Book Review, Gammage, Bill. The Biggest Estate on Earth (How Aborigines made Australia). Allen and Unwin.2011. by Valerie Joy

Valerie Joy — Tue, 11 Dec 2012 07:27:10 +0000

Than you Sue for your informed insights. I loved this book and am surprised that Gammage has detractors who shie away from his conclusions on the complexities of Aboriginal land management and culture. We still have to keep moving towards humble acknowlegement that Aboriginals really know how to manage this land, its plants and its animals- and try to engage with the earth as they did successfully for so long.

Comment on Where is the Light leading Friends? Reflections on a Silver Wattle week. by Valerie Joy

Valerie Joy — Tue, 11 Dec 2012 07:21:22 +0000

A heartfelt thanks to you Sue, for your thoughtful article. You contributed enormously to the life of the group during this week. I hope others will take the message of “Where is the Light leading friends?”, and run with it, wherever it may lead them. It is exciting and adventurous and there are so many Friends out there who will welcome contacts with Friends in Australia, be it via email or Skype, or maybe face to face. You are welcome Friend to visit if your heart is in the right place.

Comment on Are there Alternative Models for Yearly Meeting (and Friends Gatherings)? by Valerie Joy

Valerie Joy — Tue, 11 Dec 2012 07:11:17 +0000

Jenny Madeline makes some really valid points. Nothing should be cast in lead and not change over the years. Yet, I see Friends as family, and I wonder how long my family would continue in love and understanding if we did not see one another face to face. Where are the nuances of body language, eye contact if we were somehow all able to join in a giant Skype meeting?
Hosting Yearly Meetings stretches us beyond our capacities of comfort- but could it not enhance our meeting skills, our strategic thinking, and most importantly our care and love of one another? Some of these arguments are being used in the FWCC/AWPS context. In this case, where languages and cultures differ widely, I still cannot see a different scenario from one of on a 3 year basis of meeting one another physically.I have tried to vision other ways, but cannot come up with a credible scenario,

Comment on Alternatives To Violence (AVP) Asia-West Pacific Regional 2012 Gathering by rosemary morrow

rosemary morrow — Sat, 08 Dec 2012 10:29:55 +0000

I cant find where to register for AVP National Gathering after AYM

Could you help please

warmly

Rowe

Comment on Marriage – Does it Matter? by Sabine Erika

Sabine Erika — Mon, 03 Dec 2012 20:55:21 +0000

I have thought along similar lines.Civil Unions separate from any religious ceremony. Love and commitment have little to do with legalities or with the state. If we chose to have our union blessed in a religious ceremony and supported by our faith community that is fine.Some Friends were very supportive when my marriage broke up and for that I was very thankful. Let us support each other in our life choices.

Comment on Desert or Wasteland: the Choice for Friends in Response to Secularisation. by Gerard Guiton

Gerard Guiton — Thu, 29 Nov 2012 22:59:32 +0000

This is such a terrific article and beautifully written.

Comment on Pelagius; a Celtic Christian & Quaker Forerunner. by Gerard Guiton

Gerard Guiton — Thu, 15 Nov 2012 09:40:02 +0000

Nice one, Helen